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MCSPOCKY

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Be a friend, or not. Just don't pretend.
Articles Posted: 321  Links Seeded: 4696
Member Since: 4/2010  Last Seen: 4/24/2012

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Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Pissed Off at Trolls

Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:11 AM EST
not-news, meta, trolls, newsvine-trolls
By McSpocky

A True Historic BBtv Mockumentary on the origin and hating habits of the common Internet Troll, illustrated and narrated by Adam "Ape Lad" Koford.

Cyber Bullying and trolling are serious and unfortunately very common problems that effect Internet users of all ages.

A documentary of a typical day online for a Tea Party troll...

Advertise | AdChoices

 

I reached the boiling point in dealing with TROLLS tonight, so I put this together in an effort de-stress rather than destroying my keyboard.

What are your thoughts on Newsvine trolls?

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Back To Top | Front Page

Published to:

  • McSpocky's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Computers & Internet, MetaVine, Newsvine HONOR Vine
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (114)
McSpocky

Do you ever reach a point with trolls where you have to leave Newsvine for a while to avoid doing something you may regret later? What other thoughts do you have on the topic?

  • 20 votes
#1 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:14 AM EST
McSpocky

http://i42.tinypic.com/66m58w.jpg

  • 7 votes
#1.1 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:18 AM EST
Kara Shalee

Guilty as charged, I often derail articles, however in doing so, I have established friendships. No one has complained so far. If I've gone far off, then I realize my mistake and apologize. This is in response to your picture link above, so it's not a de-rail of your original topic, right??

  • 8 votes
#1.2 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:21 AM EST
McSpocky

I think it's fine visiting in articles... What I'm talking about is if, for example, the topic of the thread is "ice cream" and someone comes in and starts bashing President Obama. The two topics are unrelated, it's not visiting or anything like that, it's someone trying to derail the thread as a means of trolling. In other words, they are trying to start a fight... See what I mean?

  • 16 votes
#1.3 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:49 AM EST
johny-388777

I have been called a troll.

I bring up Smedley bulter because I think its some how related. ha ha.I keep getting into conspiracy theories. I get deleted. I don't complain though :)

Ask me about it? :)

  • 4 votes
#1.4 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:51 AM EST
RaisedByWolves

It was karma that allowed my Mac to be all disagreeable over the holidays because I was about to get out the bat and smash into the NV trolls a bit. I feel very good for the hiatus. I'm not sure I want to go to battle anymore, though. I'd rather write now. And it is NV that caused this return to writing because I realized that I've had some really neat things happen in my life and a memoir-style fiction is within reach. So, trolls, thank you! And to my friends, if you need me to bolster an opinion, I'll be there.

  • 9 votes
#1.5 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:11 AM EST
G StevG

Raised- Glad your back girl, and the vine is in a better place with your assets back, you right and I'l vote.

McSpocky What are your thoughts on Newsvine trolls?

(Dynomight), bunge jumping with no cord, sky diving with no shute, and (sautated)with onions

FR sent

  • 9 votes
#1.6 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:34 AM EST
Knotthaid

What's the matter McSpocky? You got something against ice cream?

  • 5 votes
#1.7 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 12:31 PM EST
AZPADDY

It's my opinion that Newsvine holds at least two trolls excempt from the CoH, despite their obvious and blatent deraiing, and antagonistic comment style.

It's a style that has been copied by a few others, unfortunately, and this small but dedicated group loves the attention due to the rules not applying to them.

  • 7 votes
#1.8 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:36 PM EST
Jerry Verlinger

What other thoughts do you have on the topic?

I know we're advised DNFTT, but I find if I feed them comments laced with a sufficient dose of my deadly "Snarknic", they'll eventually say something stupid enough to get themselves banned.

If I don't have time to play my "Trap the Troll" game, I just ignore them ....they hate being ignored and will eventually go away to find someone else to aggravate, which is the reason I would rather lure them into my "Troll Trap".

I know, they can simply re-register, but they all don't do that, and I seed all my articles to SRO's No re-regs allowed group, which, because SRO (Sir Richard Owen) publishes a monthly "Banned/Suspended List", he acts as an additional screen for spotting re-regs, and the NRRA group offers an added degree of insulation from Trolls.

  • 7 votes
#1.9 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:01 PM EST
bonos_rama

AZPaddy, I hold the same opinion. Not sure if it's the same people you have in mind, but I've noticed this.

Then there's a long-time Newsviner that just got banned over the past week, and has come in under several names (admitting it's him, by the way) and despite notes to mods, nothing has been done to his rereg accounts. Not that it really matters. Banning is kind of a joke around here since they pop up five minutes later.

  • 6 votes
#1.10 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:04 AM EST
Jerry Verlinger

Banning is kind of a joke around here since they pop up five minutes later.

It's not exactly that much of a joke. My observation has been that when a re-reg comes back aboard it does not necessarily go unnoticed by the admin. I think the feeling is that if someone likes the Vine enough to re-register, the admin will let them stay in the hope they will turn out to become respected contributor. Most of the time a re-reg will make an extra effort to stay within the CoH, having learned the Vine is serious about banning and another slip-up could get them banned for good.

I have at least two people on my Friends List, that I know have re-upped a couple of times. Both of them have been aboard with their current screen names for around a year, and have not done anything that would get them suspended.

  • 4 votes
#1.11 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:09 PM EST
MJL-3

Love the pic,

yes trolls are a pain in the butt

  • 5 votes
#1.12 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:52 PM EST
McSpocky

Glad to see you are back, RaisedByWolves! We missed you!

  • 5 votes
#1.13 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:43 PM EST
RaisedByWolves

And I have missed you, too! This is a family, isn't it? And as family, we must remember to not feed the trolls. They won't change and we'll just get dyspepsia!

  • 6 votes
#1.14 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:59 PM EST
Viewer01

Derailing?!? I may be guilty of that, I have been accused, not ever intending anything nefarious or trollish, just thinking that I was adding something to the original post, or taking the post to new directions related to said post. OK is this derailing; a post on psychopaths and I just happen to mention the republican congress? Wait am I derailing now?

  • 4 votes
#1.15 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:11 PM EST
Z1P2

Do you ever reach a point with trolls where you have to leave Newsvine for a while to avoid doing something you may regret later?

ALL the time... though usually I'm forced to leave newsvine more than I walk away voluntarily, lol.

What other thoughts do you have on the topic?

My thoughts are come too fast and furious... haha, just kidding.

  • 4 votes
#1.16 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 AM EST
RaisedByWolves

The all-knowing Apple product I use seemed to know I was reaching that point around Christmas and just refused to let me on NV! Well, it was a wonderful hiatus, but I'm back. I will not be taking them on more than to be snide in a post or two, though. They are nothing more than an irritant and their political views are fading. Hmmm, maybe that's why they are so noisy? Death screams?

  • 4 votes
#1.17 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:32 AM EST
McSpocky

The kind of derailing that I'm talking about is, for example, if I post a seed about Hawaiian Sunsets then someone comes into the thread and starts bashing President Obama. President Obama as nothing to do with the topic of Hawaiian Sunsets.

If some says, oh hi George to someone, how are you doing? And have a little conversation like that, I have no problem with that. Or if someone talks about sunsets in Florida, or Hawaiian beaches, I have no problem with that. Do you get what I'm saying?

The person that comes into the thread and starts bashing President Obama isn't doing anything other than to try to get an argument started... to try and purposely derail the thread to try and make people angry.

I hope that explains it a little better. :)

  • 7 votes
#1.18 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:20 AM EST
RaisedByWolves

grin - There's nothing like a mid-winter sunset seen from the 7th floor of my old law firm as it looks from the western edge of WLA down to the SM Coast, especially if it there are a few clouds!

  • 3 votes
#1.19 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:31 AM EST
SPECTACULARARAB

So, Once a troll always a troll , that's a simple fact.

  • 4 votes
#1.20 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:41 PM EST
Z1P2

President Obama as nothing to do with the topic of Hawaiian Sunsets.

That's not really true since President Obama has vacationed in Hawaii it's highly likely that he's been fortunate enough to enjoy a few Hawaiian sunsets in person.

  • 3 votes
#1.21 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 6:49 PM EST
Rene ODeay

Trolls come in many flavors. but you can always send them THIS:

for trolls ----->

http://procatinator.com/?cat=12

  • 3 votes
#1.22 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:05 PM EST
McSpocky

LOL That's pretty good!

  • 3 votes
#1.23 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:07 AM EST
Reply
Piletre

McSpocky, When they get too bad, I put them on ignore for a few days, or more. Sort of like sending them to their room or making them stand in a corner. They don't know they are on ignore, but I know it. *smiling...

  • 15 votes
#2 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:36 AM EST
McSpocky

I do that sometimes too...and I can handle that. What really pushed me over the top was where a person was derailing the thread, and I warned them to stop. They continued to so, so finally I deleted the seed and then reseeded the article. I posted in the #1 comment a warning to not derail the thread, and for this thread all off topic comments would be deleted. Immediately the troll posted the off topic comment again. I deleted it again...

Then in another thread, the same person was purposely trying to get under my skin and get a reaction from me. I was sucked in and became very PO'd. I really wish Newsvine had a feature to block users. Then when there is a visitor whose only purpose is to cause trouble like that, you could block them from the page...

Now that I've unloaded, I feel better. :)

  • 15 votes
#2.1 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:44 AM EST
Enoch-2699399

Dear Friend McSpocky: I too am no friend of the trolls. We who are serious on the Vine about conveying ideas and topics of value, or generating and moderating discussions which can bring people of diverse views and wisdom together for the common good do not appreciate derailing due to immaturity, and nefarious agendas.

I wish I had an answer for this problem. For you, for others and for me.

I do not. All we can do is fulfill our duties as moderators. We must put up with the worst, in order to create opportunity for the best.

Peace, blessings and continued support. Enoch.

  • 13 votes
#2.2 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:55 AM EST
McSpocky

As long as I don't let anger get me in trouble I'll be okay. Sometimes that takes a lot of effort. lol

Thanks for stopping by!

  • 12 votes
#2.3 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:03 AM EST
Enoch-2699399

Most welcome. E.

  • 9 votes
#2.4 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:18 AM EST
Kara Shalee

I was sucked in and became very PO'd.

That has happened to me as well. Makes me feel foolish for awhile, then I get over it. Trolls tend to show up a lot on political articles, so I try and avoid those. Too bad, since the site is called Newsvine!!

  • 7 votes
#2.5 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:26 AM EST
McSpocky

And since my main interest is politics! LOL

  • 10 votes
#2.6 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:50 AM EST
bore-head007

And since my main interest is politics! LOL

Well, hell Spock.

Thats the problem then.

If ya wanna avoid trolls, seed fishery articles. People read, but trolls hardly ever comment.

  • 11 votes
#2.7 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:36 AM EST
YaddaYadda

As long as I don't let anger get me in trouble I'll be okay.

Yep! That one gets me too sometimes. Just try to remember that you don't want to sink down to their level of crud. Easy to say, right? ;~)

I'm the kind of seeder/author who doesn't mind when things go off topic a bit as long as it's all in fun. But some folks want their seeds/articles to just be about that on topic. And that's ok too. The bottom line is this. If you find a post offensive (not just a differing opinion, but truly offensive) or off-topic, don't hesitate to delete it. Heck, it's your space. OWN it baby!!

  • 8 votes
#2.8 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:38 AM EST
Jerry Verlinger

I really wish Newsvine had a feature to block users. Then when there is a visitor whose only purpose is to cause trouble like that, you could block them from the page.

MWeaver posted an article about Trolls back in October.

At that time I made a similar suggestion;

"Perhaps the techies could devise a way that would automatically block any user from a thread after they have had a certain number of comments deleted on that thread. Such a system could be an aid to the monitors as well, because if a member gets blocked from a certain number of threads in a short period of time, there is obviously a problem with that user."

(#1.2 - Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:19 AM EDT)

  • 4 votes
#2.9 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 3:21 PM EST
GA Girl-718836

Trolls are one of the main reasons I will probably never post articles because it would become a second job just trying to kick all the loon trolls off threads. What kind of jobs do these hairy buggers have to be able to troll all things with Obama in them. I can tell they are a bit demoralized thought because I used to get into much more scrapes that I do now or they might just be avoiding me which is in their best interest because I don't take prisoners.

  • 3 votes
#2.10 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:11 AM EST
Jerry Verlinger

Trolls are one of the main reasons I will probably never post articles because it would become a second job just trying to kick all the loon trolls off threads.

That is not necessarily true. Intrusions by Trolls do not necessarily happen very often, and should not inhibit you from posting articles.

Although someone will occasionally post an article complaining about Trolls, it is usually born out of frustration from a recent go-round with a Troll or Trolls visiting their threads. McSpocky told us right up front he is just venting with this article.

  • 2 votes
#2.11 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:23 PM EST
RaisedByWolves

I find that the most negative posters are the ones who sail into articles from the MSNBC front page with all guns firing; so, I stay away from posting on articles there and just come to NV. Not a panacea, but it cuts down on my heartburn.

  • 3 votes
#2.12 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:02 PM EST
Viewer01

More on derailment, some people do get very anal regarding that, if you stray just one iota even make a joke bam you are a troll and get deleted. The thing is that sometimes we read into blogs that were never intended, and get pissed off because of miscommunications. Not a good way to make friends.

  • 2 votes
#2.13 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:23 PM EST
Jonathan-1917156

Jerry, I would think that most of the trolls are on the MSNBC side of things, and that your articles, mainly because they need to be seeded through your friends network most of the time, makes it such that in most cases, the trolls don't even see your articles, so yeah, completely agree there.

  • 2 votes
#2.14 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:46 PM EST
Anthony-1802249

Viewer01, #2.13;

The thing is that sometimes we read into blogs that were never intended, and...

Oh how I agree. I was a printer for 22+ yrs. and do tend to read things literally. Now if I was in Philosophy or into distant mind reading, I might have been able to read what was meant every time.
And yes, I had to humbly eat my words a couple of times. This is OK with me if it's called for.

But when a contrarian jumps in just to argue or a visit from a laughing hyena leaves something, I try to ignor them.

  • 4 votes
#2.15 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:16 PM EST
McSpocky

I find that the most negative posters are the ones who sail into articles from the MSNBC front page with all guns firing;

I stay away from the comments on the MSNBC articles most of the time as well. They get too nasty for me. lol

  • 3 votes
#2.16 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:22 AM EST
RaisedByWolves

Me, too! I really noticed it in the past few months, even before I had the tech problem. The trolls seem to pile on in those articles. So, yeah, stay behind the yellow tape!

  • 1 vote
#2.17 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:32 AM EST
Reply
Robert in Ohio

McSpocky

You tend to seed threads and write articles about issues that generate distinct and passionate opposing views, which is a good thing, and you do it very well.

It has been my experience that you are accepting of counter points and vigorous opposition to your point of view.

I know this because I supply a lot of it as I enjoy your articles very much and we have opposing views on numerous issues and agree on a few.

If you were not bringing up serious and relevant subjects that make people uncomfortable they would not be attempting to irritate you

This article was a pleasant interlude and I hope you continue to use such vehicles to vent stress as I thoroughly enjoy your articles.

Take good care and keep writing.

  • 9 votes
Reply#3 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:34 AM EST
Shub Tnediserp Remrof

clipping to Anger Management

Feel better releasing that anger I hope.

  • 3 votes
Reply#4 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:32 AM EST
Susan Anthony

McSpocky, thanks for this post and the funny videos.

You could look at trolling in another way.

Here on newsvine I do find that many of the posters are sincere, funny, wise, creative, and knowledgeable on many topics. So, it is worth it to me to tolerate trolls.

Whereas if I go to other news sites and glance at their comments, I see that trolls are out of control. I think that newsvine posters have found a way to reduce trolling because we don't tolerate them and we effectively counteract them. Their arguments don't work here.

At first, when a troll got me angry, I realized I fell for their tricks. Now, I look at their posts and responses for these characteristics:

  • is the post way off topic,
  • does the post attempt to elicit anger through insults,
  • does it contain typical neocon talking points, or
  • does the response take the previous post and invert it by replacing various words with neoon words?

If so, then I just ignore them without blocking them because I want to learn their tactics.

Even when trolls adopt a false "intellectual" pose in order to inject neocon talking points, it helps me practice writing an reasoned response but if the troll continues to try and keep the debate going without acknowledging a different perspective but in order to push neocon ideas, I move on.

I feel we need to know how neocons use language as a weapon.

  • 5 votes
Reply#5 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:08 AM EST
Augur Well

Personally, McS, my own humble opine, I believe you're doin' just fine. One of the very better Viner's in my view.

Now, my two of three pennies worth! (*grin!*)

Report, report, report. I can't stress that enough. Not just delete, but report! Each and every time you're trolled. Include links to the article, its title, and link the offending commentary. Take the time to do this. Please! Don't just click on the exclamation point, report the transgression to Staff with as much relevant information as you can. The easier and quicker they can respond to complaints, all the easier and effective, their work becomes for them. Sooner or later it will and does catch up to said trolls.

Of course, I don't know if you're already doing this, but in case you're not! do it do it do it!

Take a break from the Vine once in a while. A Vine-cation. It's not a sense of surrendering to the trolls, or anything like that. Not in the least. You have every right to get yourself back into a right way again. So take a break every now and then. It works. I know, I do it when I feel the need, a lot of folks do. You're being fed up with trolls like you seem to be only shows how much care and concern and dedication to all things positive about the Vine you have that trolls simply can never grasp the import of anyway.

You are the moderator! Not the troll! And I for one think you do a superb job! Would that more members take and accept their moderator responsibilities as well as you.

  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:42 AM EST
McSpocky

I do a lot more reporting than I used to. It seems like it often goes unnoticed though.

  • 8 votes
#6.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:45 PM EST
bonos_rama

Do you think that authors that do a lot of reporting get ignored after a while? Which would be stupid, since there IS a c of h and there IS a button for just that reason...but sometimes it seems that way.

  • 3 votes
#6.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:20 PM EST
McSpocky

I have no idea. I have heard that some of these problems are supposed to be solved, or at least a lot easier to deal with with the new version of Newsvine that will be coming.

  • 2 votes
#6.3 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:24 AM EST
RaisedByWolves

As long as I reported the CoH violation with a name, the seed and possible re-reg or whatever, I've never been ignored.

  • 1 vote
#6.4 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:33 AM EST
Reply
NC Slim

McSpocky:

Please invent and install the following:

  • an "off-topic" button
  • a Troll button
  • Re-reg(I.D. old name and new name)

Let's start giving out badges to those visited by trolls. Trolls want to frustrate, stop you from posting. I say drink a cup of coffee, hoist a beer or sip a glass of wine then jump back in the fray. Or have all intelligent and informed NVers to visit them under that rock at fox.

  • 7 votes
Reply#7 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:59 AM EST
McSpocky

I've been trolled badges... That could be kind of cool.

  • 6 votes
#7.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:46 PM EST
Reply
SuperSaiyan

I haven't had to deal with too many trolls, but when I do, I let them know that I will not take any of their nonsense.

  • 4 votes
Reply#8 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:09 PM EST
SW Missouri Mule

Delete and delete and delete again. Warn them that further comments will be deleted. Then delete them.

  • 2 votes
#9 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:01 PM EST
AZPADDY

Delete and delete and delete again. Warn them that further comments will be deleted. Then delete them.

I did exactly that and was deluged with a 200 comment carpet-bombing by 2 long-time viners who - incredibly - hold themselves up as CoH experts. Their whole point was that I was not moderating properly. It actually went on for days. I can guarantee that these two do not even remotely consider themselves trolls, but I have irrefutable proof they are indeed trolls.

  • 4 votes
#9.1 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:44 PM EST
bonos_rama

that's a problem, AZPaddy. As a mod, you are supposed to have the right to delete off-topic comments, but when you do, what often happens is that the person you deleted starts ranting and raving about your moderation, and about how partisan Newsvine is, blah blah blah, and then they invariably invite a bunch of their friends to start complaining and derailing. You know they invited them, too, b/c the friends were nowhere to be seen on your article before the deletion. It's ridiculous. We really need the ability to block people from particular seeds. If someone has received warnings or deletions on a seed, the mod should have the right to block them from that seed if the behavior continues. That behavior infringes upon everybody else's right to hold a discussion.

  • 4 votes
#9.2 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:13 AM EST
AZPADDY

bonos_rama

We really need the ability to block people from particular seeds

THAT is a Capital idea!

I was struck by the hypocrisy of anyone who purports to be a CoH "expert" persisting in harrassing an author about the quality of moderation. And you're exactly right about the "Freinds" piling on. I can recite the group's membership, and continue to see them as they travel around the Vine, typically on Meta articles.

Hopefully, the New Newsvine will include an author's ability to block those who comment in an offensive manner. I'm not optimistic that will happen, but we can hope.

  • 5 votes
#9.3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:49 AM EST
Jerry Verlinger

Hopefully, the New Newsvine will include an author's ability to block those who comment in an offensive manner. I'm not optimistic that will happen, but we can hope

The "Collapsed by the Community" trigger, should be applied to the "Delete" button, whereas multiple deletions would trigger the offending user to be blocked from making further comments on that particular thread.

The unrestrained ability for a seeder/author to block a particular member from commenting on a thread could easily be abused. However, blocking as a result by multiple deletions will raise flags, which will result in the deletions being reviewed by the staff moderators.

See #2.9

  • 4 votes
#9.4 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:44 PM EST
AZPADDY

Jerry Verlinger

My confidence in Newsvine moderator's willingness or ability to uphold the CoH has dropped dramatically in the last few months. That's why I believe each author should have the ability to delete when they see fit. Sure it could be abused, but having your articles derailed by hundreds of comments by a handful of Viners with less than honorable intentions is abuse none should have to suffer.

Blocking those who practice that abuse would be a very useful tool.

  • 7 votes
#9.5 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:33 PM EST
SW Missouri Mule

AZPADDY, you always have the option of shutting off comments from everyone. It depends on which is more important, the article or the derailment. I think I would prefer not to fight for too long. Just be sure it is a troll and not a regular user with a bad attitude that you are deleting.

As for the friends showing up, we don't need to contact our friends to bring them to articles. Newsvine has a comment tracker for our friends. It is the 3rd box on the conversation tracker. Everything is not a conspiracy.

  • 4 votes
#9.6 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:11 PM EST
AZPADDY

SW Missouri Mule

. Everything is not a conspiracy.

No, more like a crime of opportunity. Maybe you've recognized yourself or some freinds in my comment? Your response is a good example of how the offensive comments start.

  • 3 votes
#9.7 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:04 PM EST
SW Missouri Mule

I may have "friends" but they all hang out at the barn, not NV. You won't find them running to my aid. If I have offended you, please know that it was not my intent. I was trying to explain how friends find friends. Do you not do the same in checking the articles your friends are commenting on? It is common practice and the reason there is a conversation tracker. It is not for gang attacks although some might use it that way, I suppose.

  • 3 votes
#9.8 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 PM EST
AZPADDY

SW Missouri Mule

My apologies for reading bad intent into your comment, but the "conspiracy" remark threw me a little.

I too have my freinds list, but I guess I'm different, in that I rarely follow any comments from them. I was referring to a group of 5 to 7 Viners who seem very cohesive. I've seen their work more than a few times.

  • 5 votes
#9.9 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:35 PM EST
SW Missouri Mule

There were roving gangs in the past but I would say there are only a few on the move these days. You may be right about the group you encountered. I know of one group that was so vicious and so sure of their strength that they forgot there was a higher power. They were picked off one by one for repeated COH violations until only a few are left. They still snarl and snap but there is no tooth. They just flap their gums. LOL

  • 7 votes
#9.10 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:11 PM EST
MJL-3

SW Missouri Mule

Yep

  • 3 votes
#9.11 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:56 AM EST
CrowMeris

SW Missouri Mule:

AZPADDY, you always have the option of shutting off comments from everyone.

You can close comments on articles, but not on seeds. With seeds, you've got two options: delete seed or don't delete seed - that's it.

:::keeping fingers crossed that the next update will fix this sorry situation:::

  • 1 vote
#9.12 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:24 PM EST
SW Missouri Mule

Ah ha! Well that sucks, Crow. Let's hope a lot of things are made better in the new vine.

  • 2 votes
#9.13 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:13 PM EST
McSpocky

:::keeping fingers crossed that the next update will fix this sorry situation:::

That would really come in handy sometimes.

  • 2 votes
#9.14 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:09 PM EST
Jerry Verlinger

My confidence in Newsvine moderator's willingness or ability to uphold the CoH has dropped dramatically in the last few months.

I haven't noticed a difference.

That's why I believe each author should have the ability to delete when they see fit.

Authors do have the ability to delete a comment. What we're talking about here, is the ability to block a user from commenting on a column.

What I am proposing, is a user be automatically blocked from a thread if they have more than 4 or 5 comments deleted on that thread. That way if the author deliberately deletes valid comments of a particular user, just to block them from the thread, it will be picked up by the admin, and the author could be suspended for abusing their "Delete" power.

  • 3 votes
#9.15 - Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:31 PM EST
Jerry Verlinger

My confidence in Newsvine moderator's willingness or ability to uphold the CoH has dropped dramatically in the last few months.

I haven't noticed a difference.

That's why I believe each author should have the ability to delete when they see fit.

Authors do have the ability to delete a comment. What we're talking about here, is the ability to block a user from commenting on a column.

What I am proposing, is a user be automatically blocked from a thread if they have more than 4 or 5 comments deleted on that thread. That way if the author deliberately deletes valid comments of a particular user, just to block them from the thread, it will be picked up by the admin, and the author could be suspended for abusing their "Delete" power.

  • 1 vote
#9.16 - Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:31 PM EST
Jonathan-1917156

Jerry,

well if I see a person deleting my comments for bs reasons, I will usually just ask that they delete ALL of my comments from the thread, because if they are going to squelch my opinion from it, they need to just remove me from the column entirely.

  • 1 vote
#9.17 - Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:40 PM EST
Jerry Verlinger

well if I see a person deleting my comments for bs reasons, I will usually just ask that they delete ALL of my comments from the thread, because if they are going to squelch my opinion from it, they need to just remove me from the column entirely.

In a way I agree with you. But IMO, it's best just to respond to the email you get from admin notifying you of the deletion, and state your case as to why the comment should be restored.

Continued unwarranted deletions will result in a suspension of the author. However, if the admin is not made aware of the deletion abuse, the abuse will just continue.

  • 2 votes
#9.18 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:09 PM EST
Jonathan-1917156

and that has never worked, not even a response as to why it wasn't deleted. I think the moderators are just overworked.

The other problem could also be that in the case of these authors, most of the posts on their columns are pro their position, so they delete what they don't like, even if it doesn't violate the CoH, and because nobody else is getting deleted (because nobody reads their columns), then they wouldn't get enough complaints to get suspended.

  • 1 vote
#9.19 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:39 PM EST
Jerry Verlinger

and that has never worked, not even a response as to why it wasn't deleted. I think the moderators are just overworked.

It has worked, I have seen many comments restored, including some of mine.

I think you meant "....not even a response as to why the comment wasn't restored." And I have received a response explaining why a comment was not restored, but not always, ..... your right, the moderators are overworked.

IMO, if they they have the time and the resources to create a "New Newsvine", they should be able to hire more moderators in the meantime.

  • 1 vote
#9.20 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:27 PM EST
Jonathan-1917156

That could just be your 'name value', as you write/seed a lot more than I do. I have never received a single peep from appealing.

  • 1 vote
#9.21 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:35 PM EST
McSpocky

I have had several comments restored after appealing.

  • 1 vote
#9.22 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:43 PM EST
Jerry Verlinger

That could just be your 'name value', as you write/seed a lot more than I do.

I would not like to think that.

Actually, I have not had a comment deleted for quite a while. I think it may be more that the moderators are more overworked now than back when I had my "Snark Meter" set too high.

I have never received a single peep from appealing.

My assumption would be that the comments did not warrant restoring, and overworked moderators do not have to time to explain actions that should not require explaining.

  • 1 vote
#9.23 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:58 PM EST
Jonathan-1917156

Jerry,

Actually 3 of them were flat out not deletable, the others were debatable, (gotta stop biting at the grenade trolls, but they were still within the CoH), so I just stopped bothering.

  • 2 votes
#9.24 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:06 PM EST
McSpocky

Speaking of troll, I have one in another thread now. :(

  • 1 vote
#9.25 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:08 AM EST
CrowMeris

Speaking of troll, I have one in another thread now. :(

He hit the road (Jack).

  • 1 vote
#9.26 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:29 AM EST
McSpocky

I saw where that one's account had disappeared. LOL But I meant another one actually.

  • 2 votes
#9.27 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:21 PM EST
Reply
Katheryn Brandy

I am new to Newsvine (well,I've barely learned how to turn on a computer,so I'm new to all of it). One of the things that first attracted me to Newsvine is reading other perspectives on an issue and learning from other posts. And I don't mind vigorous debate - it's when it devolves into such vitriol that there ceases to be any intellectual exchange that I object.

And then a poster said they just come here to get their jollies poking at people and riling them up - and it doesn't have to be about politics,they'll insert it anyway.

How do you communicate with someone like that? And yet some of the venom they are spewing I can hardly let go by. (oh,yeah - I just read an intro to a seed that called the president an A-Hole. Wow.I passed.

  • 9 votes
Reply#10 - Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:25 PM EST
Susan Anthony

Hi Katheryn Brady, welcome to newsvine. As you quickly learned, comments can be quite diverse. But, stick around, there's plenty to learn.

  • 5 votes
#10.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 3:54 AM EST
Anthony-1802249

Katheryn Brandy, #10;

NewsVine is an interesting place and you will find your place that complies to your interests. Not all are locked in their opinions and stupidly ill informed. Take them with a grain of salt and find your own information. Don't sort out just one venue of thinkers until it shows truths you can rely on and verify by your own investigations from more reliable and authenticated sources.

I cannot tell you how to think or wish to, that is up to you. Good fortune.

  • 3 votes
#10.2 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:30 AM EST
Katheryn Brandy

Susan and Anthony - Why thank you for the welcome, and I enjoyed your example in #11 - #11.3 of civilized discourse. ;~))

  • 5 votes
#10.3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:26 PM EST
McSpocky

Welcome to Newsvine, Katheryn!

  • 5 votes
#10.4 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:49 PM EST
CrowMeris

Welcome, Katheryn! Trolls aside, Newsvine is a great place with great people, even if we don't always agree on everything. ;}

For some reason, you're still in the Greenhouse. If you've got the time, visit lauhal's article: Are you a REAL PERSON in the Greenhouse? Ask her to help spring you. Plus you'll find some good general information on using Newsvine.

(Sorry for the off-topic post - I just like helping out our new 'Viners!)

  • 3 votes
#10.5 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:20 PM EST
McSpocky

Great link, I'll add that to my Newsvine Information For Newsviners page!

  • 2 votes
#10.6 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:11 PM EST
Reply
Anthony-1802249

I am a conservative; and don't concider your opinions of an acknowledgable group of concerned citizens known as the silent majojority as idiots meaningfull. Wishfull thinking and half truths won't make it true.
If you refuse to face reality and do anything other than talk amongst your selves, you can never find actual facts as recorded in documentation by reliable sources. Not fox, not second hand pundits, not agendas by the left/socialism sources, but actual words and actions by those you believe in.

Following the current media with editorialized news will not give the true information anymore. It must be backed up by independent and individual research from other resources to find a balanced opinion. A wide area of reading, including the great books of Western Civilizations, Engels' "Communist Manifesto" also "rules for Radicals" by Alinsky can either be enlightening or convincing. Whatever you wish.

However, more people are becoming aware and will make sure it will become knowledge to conteract the socialist ideology, half truths and revised history you proclaim.

  • 3 votes
#11 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:39 AM EST
Susan Anthony

Anthony, hello. I found your post difficult to understand. Not sure if it was the misspellings or unclear sentences. Also, not sure if you were insulting newsvine posters or actually offering advice.

If you refuse to face reality and do anything other than talk amongst your selves, you can never find actual facts as recorded in documentation by reliable sources. Not fox, not second hand pundits, not agendas by the left/socialism sources, but actual words and actions by those you believe in.

No offense, but who are you to tell me and others we need to face reality. I face reality every day, every hour when I face unemployment, rising bank fees, rising health insurance costs, lack of access to quality medical care, rising transportation costs, rising education costs, neocon politicians who deny women birth control and medically needed procedures, increasing housing foreclosures, endless wars, the list goes on. Have you faced any of these realities personally?

I face a reality created by the greed of the banking industry in cahoots with neocon politicians and dimwitted Dems. I watched the takeover of our Democracy by GWBush's trillion dollar bank giveway.

What cute phrases -- left/socialism, revised history, socialist ideology, half truths. How empty your words are. Not one policy devised by neocons has helped America but boy they have helped the Uber rich. The 1% have done quite well.

However, more people are becoming aware and will make sure it will become knowledge to conteract the socialist ideology, half truths and revised history you proclaim.

You talk like a neocon, taking the criticisms of neocon policies and trying to project it onto your "perceived" enemy.

You are demonizing your fellow Americans and that is what is so sad.

  • 4 votes
#11.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:11 AM EST
Anthony-1802249

Susan Anthony, #11.1;

I can discuss each point you refer to, but let me ask? Do you realy want to know?

Are you open for a difference of opinion and documented facts or just looking for arguements.

  • 3 votes
#11.2 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:42 AM EST
Susan Anthony

Anthony, I am open to differences of opinion, information and communication.

I do not look for arguments. But, I will defend myself and my values. Occasionally, I will get testy or snippy if I think a post is frivolous, or if I am in bad mood. If that bothers you, I am sorry.

Communication is a two-way process and it is often a difficult process.

  • 4 votes
#11.3 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:07 AM EST
Anthony-1802249Deleted
Susan Anthony

Anthony, if you can bear with me, I will have to research much of the people and issues you have mentioned. While many of the persons and issues you discuss are familiar, I can not speak about them with any depth of knowledge.

I appreciate that you rely on your own judgement rather than "mainstream" media. I, too, gave up my TV in 1991 and while I do not have a TV, I am often in the home of family, friends and even restaurants where there are TVs, so I am not unaware of many of today's opinion shows and their hosts.

I do rely on the internet for information, so that is another location where I find reruns of opinion shows as well as internet radio. But, I research and continue to expand my informational sources, so that I do not buy into any one presentation of facts.

I am widely read but I lost my beautiful library of thousands of books when I had to sell my home in 2006, so all my sources for references are gone. I could have gone to my bookshelf and gotten the Karl Marx book or the Red book by Mao, or the Prince, or the bible or so many other influential books.

Now, I must find another way to rebuild my sources for references.

Take care.

  • 3 votes
#11.5 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:08 PM EST
Anthony-1802249

Susan, please don't get me started on China!!!!

I'll get brain strain on that topic alone.... 8>}

    #11.6 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 4:23 PM EST
    McSpocky

    By the way, please keep politics out of this thread. This is a thread about trolls, not about politics. Thank you.

    • 4 votes
    #11.7 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:51 PM EST
    Viewer01

    Now this McS is what I call derailment, unless you are of the mindset everything is about politics.

    • 2 votes
    #11.8 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:31 PM EST
    Anthony-1802249

    McSpocky, #11.7;

    I'll agree with you with one caveat. Are you using "trolls" in general or assigning them to a specific catalog of the political spectrum?

    I've read many NewsViners comments and the most used it in left wing derailings and Occupy NV group takeovers. Such as happened to me several times when posting opinion pieces and became a target. I wrote a reasoned letter to the NV monitors about the groups censorship by flooding my articles as soon as they posted and started within miniutes in the first response. They have since avoided my comments.

    I have since used a more discriptive term for them; Drones. I'm mostly Norwegian and we have trolls that can be funny and mischievous.

    Viewer01, Isn't the term mostly used in political comments? I've never seen it when seeing a recipe or a vacation trip article.

    • 1 vote
    #11.9 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:38 PM EST
    Viewer01

    Viewer01, Isn't the term mostly used in political comments? I've never seen it when seeing a recipe or a vacation trip article.

    ??????? Trying to get.........term? You mean my web name? Oh derailment!! ?? Wait no...recipe or vacation??? Sorry Anthony I'm not following you.

    Derailment - Is posting a comment that has nothing to do with the original posted article or seed.

    Viewer01 - I could like sight seeing as in vacation trip article, more like a newspaper title. Journal/Sentinel/Sun/Beacon etc. or as Eddie would say whats your opinion VIEWER.

    • 1 vote
    #11.10 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:49 PM EST
    Anthony-1802249

    Viewer01, #11.10;

    Sorry I wasn't as explicit as I could have been.
    The subject and topic was Trolls and I should have included that.

    .... unless you are of the mindset everything is about politics.

    This is what I responded to, because that "term" (trolls) is the only times, in political articles, it is used that I've seen. It is used as a derogitory "term" for people who have nothing else to say, to refute/defame a writer and not the message. Using it to refer to creatures who hide under beds to frighten chilldren.

    See rule #5 of Saul Alinskys' "Rules for Radicals" and you will see why it is so used ad nauseam.

    And yes, I believe "Trolls" is political in its current usage.

    • 2 votes
    #11.11 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:15 AM EST
    Viewer01

    Oh, I think trolls can be used for any kind of cyber bullying, example if you were to have video's of some family event to share with friends and some outsider comes along pokes fun. It can be anything on any site for people with personality disorders to express their alienation. The thing about the Vine is people with different views on a subject debates can get nasty, like Thanksgiving dinner with relatives. Not being a troll in my opinion, but well not every ones.

    As for mindset of politics in everything, I was talking about you & Sue, what you started is called derailment or changing the subject to something completely unrelated to the original post. And I have been guilty or so I have been told of that in the past. You can see how if you have an axe to grind political or otherwise, start your own post, or [this may be advertising] go on the Ed Schultz poll question of the day. Warning the majority of us there are liberal democrats, Sue will be welcomed, you too but in a special kind of way. ☺☻☺☻

    One other thing post #11.10 sight seeing, site seeing.

    • 1 vote
    #11.12 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:43 PM EST
    Anthony-1802249

    Viewer01, #11.12;

    I understand what you are saying and mainly agree. But by your own definition your comment in #11.12 was not on topic. I do not concider it a derailment but a response to another viner of your opinion of what was said..I feel a short side discussion can be how you learn other things as we did in a few comments. You can learn WHY someone has a reason for an opinion on or pertaining to the topic.

    It can be anything on any site for people with personality disorders to express their alienation.

    Yes it can, but I said that I've only seen it most used on political pages. I've also seen it used on Police bashing, Religious comments, pieces on racism, and mostly by liberals, proggresive, or unionists.

    Once, and only one time, I was suspended by Sally for a day for infering a writer may have a personality disorder and called him loutish. He didn't know the word and reported it as obscene. My comment was reinstated but the suspension stayed.

    I could not call him a Troll because he went far beyond that in his tirades. And since then he has completely avoided my articles and any comments I've made on others, as well as his gang of "Occupy NV" because I'm no longer on their WATCH list.

    I can only Assume it was my suggestion to the monitors that if? it was fair for them to do it that it may only be just as fair if my conservative friends cross over to their articles and reciprocate, but without the vilifications.

    This would be censorship by domination, one of Hitlers' brown shirts tactics, and I avidly support free speech whether from the far left or far right, but free speech doesn't include rude personal attacks.

    • 1 vote
    #11.13 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:52 PM EST
    Susan Anthony

    McSpocky, sorry for going off topic. Thanks for the reminder.

    Anthony 1802249, I published an article "Trolls and My Reply to Anthony1802249" as my reply.

    Thanks everyone for your patience.

    • 1 vote
    #11.14 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:21 PM EST
    McSpocky

    Anthony-1802249

    McSpocky, #11.7;

    I'll agree with you with one caveat. Are you using "trolls" in general or assigning them to a specific catalog of the political spectrum?

    No, it has to do with TROLLS in general. If you would have read through the article I think you could have surmised that.

    And I deleted comment #11.4 for going way over the top on derailing this thread, which seems to have been the purpose for posting it.

    • 2 votes
    #11.15 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:29 AM EST
    Anthony-1802249

    McSpocky, #11.15;

    I apologize and you are right. As an elder I do wander and run off sometimes on tracks that may not belong. I should not have let myself carry over an encounter with a troll to this thread and dumped the emotional backlash on all these good people.

    • 4 votes
    #11.16 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:17 PM EST
    McSpocky

    Thank you, apology accepted...and I appreciate it.

    • 2 votes
    #11.17 - Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:12 PM EST
    Reply
    Soph0571

    No point in getting pissed off D. Just be thankful your life is not so empty and meaningless that you feel the need to act is such an assholish way!

    • 7 votes
    Reply#12 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:13 AM EST
    McSpocky

    It would really feel good sometimes... LOL

    Thank you for stopping by, S, I appreciate it. I basically took most of a day off and cooled down so I would do something that might get me in trouble. I'm still a little tense though, so I'm having to work extra hard not to lose it. Almost like a hair trigger...but I'm doing better.

    • 6 votes
    #12.1 - Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:53 PM EST
    G StevG

    McSpocky Almost like a hair trigger..

    Shave your head Mc I tried it once and it worked for me except for the bald thingy ;-)

    Soph act in such an assholish way!

    You can't help stupid, or those that find that sort of thing the highlight of their day

    • 4 votes
    #12.2 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:32 AM EST
    Reply
    northern girl

    People just need to remember that no one can bait you without your permission. If you let emotions influence your response, you're gonna get nailed. If that person is a troll, you just let them win. If they are not a troll, you just lost all credibility with them and the other viners.

    Some column mods have a gift for keeping everything in line, others couldnt control a cemetery. If someone brings up Obama on a topic about icecream, they are most likely a troll. If they bring up icecream on a topic about Obama, they are probably trying to lighten up a conversation that is getting too tense for their liking. A good example of this would be Belle. If it looks like people are starting to get nasty, the boobs come out. This usually gets people to laugh a little bit and eases the tension. IMO, some off topic banter isnt always bad, but if you let your friends run wild while deleting those you dislike, you have failed as a moderator and shouldnt be surprised if/when TPTB spank you.

    Also, some people just have a more direct and to the point way of speaking that others may confuse for trolling. When you start taking things personally and read more into their comment than you should, you are only hurting yourself. If you delete things that dont violate the CoH, you yourself have just done so and you can expect to get a vinecation. Many viners, myself included, will defend someone we feel was unjustifiably deleted, even if we dont like the person and/or disagree with their viewpoint. You cant have a debate in an echo chamber.

    McSpocky- Loved the videos. Had tears in my eyes from laughing so hard! Good find on all of them;) And good article!

    • 4 votes
    Reply#13 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:05 AM EST
    McSpocky

    If someone brings up Obama on a topic about icecream, they are most likely a troll. If they bring up icecream on a topic about Obama, they are probably trying to lighten up a conversation that is getting too tense for their liking.

    Exactly... You put that in easy to understand terms. Thanks!

    • 3 votes
    #13.1 - Mon Feb 20, 2012 9:32 AM EST
    Reply
    Jonathan-1917156

    trollin trollin trollin.

    Damn, I just got invited to go on a trollin trip, should I go?

    • 4 votes
    Reply#14 - Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:45 PM EST
    SW Missouri Mule

    Pack yer chest waders. It gets deep and icky.

    • 4 votes
    #14.1 - Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:47 AM EST
    Reply
    lauhal

    McSpocky - Put your lament regarding trolls in haiku form for a chance to win some $$.

    May as well get a little something for your aggravation! LOL :D

    • 3 votes
    Reply#15 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:33 PM EST
    McSpocky

    That sounds like fun, I'll see what I can come up with! :D

    • 3 votes
    #15.1 - Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:23 PM EST
    Reply
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