Pissed Off at Trolls

Dear Friend McSpocky: I too am no friend of the trolls. We who are serious on the Vine about conveying ideas and topics of value, or generating and moderating discussions which can bring people of diverse views and wisdom together for the common good do not appreciate derailing due to immaturity, and nefarious agendas.

I wish I had an answer for this problem. For you, for others and for me.

I do not. All we can do is fulfill our duties as moderators. We must put up with the worst, in order to create opportunity for the best.

Peace, blessings and continued support. Enoch.

Most welcome. E.

I was sucked in and became very PO'd.

That has happened to me as well. Makes me feel foolish for awhile, then I get over it. Trolls tend to show up a lot on political articles, so I try and avoid those. Too bad, since the site is called Newsvine!!

And since my main interest is politics! LOL

Well, hell Spock.

Thats the problem then.

If ya wanna avoid trolls, seed fishery articles. People read, but trolls hardly ever comment.

As long as I don't let anger get me in trouble I'll be okay.

Yep! That one gets me too sometimes. Just try to remember that you don't want to sink down to their level of crud. Easy to say, right? ;~)

I'm the kind of seeder/author who doesn't mind when things go off topic a bit as long as it's all in fun. But some folks want their seeds/articles to just be about that on topic. And that's ok too. The bottom line is this. If you find a post offensive (not just a differing opinion, but truly offensive) or off-topic, don't hesitate to delete it. Heck, it's your space. OWN it baby!!

I really wish Newsvine had a feature to block users. Then when there is a visitor whose only purpose is to cause trouble like that, you could block them from the page.

MWeaver posted an article about Trolls back in October.

At that time I made a similar suggestion;

"Perhaps the techies could devise a way that would automatically block any user from a thread after they have had a certain number of comments deleted on that thread. Such a system could be an aid to the monitors as well, because if a member gets blocked from a certain number of threads in a short period of time, there is obviously a problem with that user."

(#1.2 - Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:19 AM EDT)

Trolls are one of the main reasons I will probably never post articles because it would become a second job just trying to kick all the loon trolls off threads. What kind of jobs do these hairy buggers have to be able to troll all things with Obama in them. I can tell they are a bit demoralized thought because I used to get into much more scrapes that I do now or they might just be avoiding me which is in their best interest because I don't take prisoners.

Trolls are one of the main reasons I will probably never post articles because it would become a second job just trying to kick all the loon trolls off threads.

That is not necessarily true. Intrusions by Trolls do not necessarily happen very often, and should not inhibit you from posting articles.

Although someone will occasionally post an article complaining about Trolls, it is usually born out of frustration from a recent go-round with a Troll or Trolls visiting their threads. McSpocky told us right up front he is just venting with this article.

I find that the most negative posters are the ones who sail into articles from the MSNBC front page with all guns firing; so, I stay away from posting on articles there and just come to NV. Not a panacea, but it cuts down on my heartburn.

More on derailment, some people do get very anal regarding that, if you stray just one iota even make a joke bam you are a troll and get deleted. The thing is that sometimes we read into blogs that were never intended, and get pissed off because of miscommunications. Not a good way to make friends.

Jerry, I would think that most of the trolls are on the MSNBC side of things, and that your articles, mainly because they need to be seeded through your friends network most of the time, makes it such that in most cases, the trolls don't even see your articles, so yeah, completely agree there.

Viewer01, #2.13;

The thing is that sometimes we read into blogs that were never intended, and...

Oh how I agree. I was a printer for 22+ yrs. and do tend to read things literally. Now if I was in Philosophy or into distant mind reading, I might have been able to read what was meant every time.
And yes, I had to humbly eat my words a couple of times. This is OK with me if it's called for.

But when a contrarian jumps in just to argue or a visit from a laughing hyena leaves something, I try to ignor them.

Me, too! I really noticed it in the past few months, even before I had the tech problem. The trolls seem to pile on in those articles. So, yeah, stay behind the yellow tape!

Do you think that authors that do a lot of reporting get ignored after a while? Which would be stupid, since there IS a c of h and there IS a button for just that reason...but sometimes it seems that way.

As long as I reported the CoH violation with a name, the seed and possible re-reg or whatever, I've never been ignored.

Delete and delete and delete again. Warn them that further comments will be deleted. Then delete them.

I did exactly that and was deluged with a 200 comment carpet-bombing by 2 long-time viners who - incredibly - hold themselves up as CoH experts. Their whole point was that I was not moderating properly. It actually went on for days. I can guarantee that these two do not even remotely consider themselves trolls, but I have irrefutable proof they are indeed trolls.

that's a problem, AZPaddy. As a mod, you are supposed to have the right to delete off-topic comments, but when you do, what often happens is that the person you deleted starts ranting and raving about your moderation, and about how partisan Newsvine is, blah blah blah, and then they invariably invite a bunch of their friends to start complaining and derailing. You know they invited them, too, b/c the friends were nowhere to be seen on your article before the deletion. It's ridiculous. We really need the ability to block people from particular seeds. If someone has received warnings or deletions on a seed, the mod should have the right to block them from that seed if the behavior continues. That behavior infringes upon everybody else's right to hold a discussion.

bonos_rama

We really need the ability to block people from particular seeds

THAT is a Capital idea!

I was struck by the hypocrisy of anyone who purports to be a CoH "expert" persisting in harrassing an author about the quality of moderation. And you're exactly right about the "Freinds" piling on. I can recite the group's membership, and continue to see them as they travel around the Vine, typically on Meta articles.

Hopefully, the New Newsvine will include an author's ability to block those who comment in an offensive manner. I'm not optimistic that will happen, but we can hope.

Hopefully, the New Newsvine will include an author's ability to block those who comment in an offensive manner. I'm not optimistic that will happen, but we can hope

The "Collapsed by the Community" trigger, should be applied to the "Delete" button, whereas multiple deletions would trigger the offending user to be blocked from making further comments on that particular thread.

The unrestrained ability for a seeder/author to block a particular member from commenting on a thread could easily be abused. However, blocking as a result by multiple deletions will raise flags, which will result in the deletions being reviewed by the staff moderators.

See #2.9

Jerry Verlinger

My confidence in Newsvine moderator's willingness or ability to uphold the CoH has dropped dramatically in the last few months. That's why I believe each author should have the ability to delete when they see fit. Sure it could be abused, but having your articles derailed by hundreds of comments by a handful of Viners with less than honorable intentions is abuse none should have to suffer.

Blocking those who practice that abuse would be a very useful tool.

AZPADDY, you always have the option of shutting off comments from everyone. It depends on which is more important, the article or the derailment. I think I would prefer not to fight for too long. Just be sure it is a troll and not a regular user with a bad attitude that you are deleting.

As for the friends showing up, we don't need to contact our friends to bring them to articles. Newsvine has a comment tracker for our friends. It is the 3rd box on the conversation tracker. Everything is not a conspiracy.

SW Missouri Mule

. Everything is not a conspiracy.

No, more like a crime of opportunity. Maybe you've recognized yourself or some freinds in my comment? Your response is a good example of how the offensive comments start.

I may have "friends" but they all hang out at the barn, not NV. You won't find them running to my aid. If I have offended you, please know that it was not my intent. I was trying to explain how friends find friends. Do you not do the same in checking the articles your friends are commenting on? It is common practice and the reason there is a conversation tracker. It is not for gang attacks although some might use it that way, I suppose.

SW Missouri Mule

My apologies for reading bad intent into your comment, but the "conspiracy" remark threw me a little.

I too have my freinds list, but I guess I'm different, in that I rarely follow any comments from them. I was referring to a group of 5 to 7 Viners who seem very cohesive. I've seen their work more than a few times.

There were roving gangs in the past but I would say there are only a few on the move these days. You may be right about the group you encountered. I know of one group that was so vicious and so sure of their strength that they forgot there was a higher power. They were picked off one by one for repeated COH violations until only a few are left. They still snarl and snap but there is no tooth. They just flap their gums. LOL

SW Missouri Mule

Yep

SW Missouri Mule:

AZPADDY, you always have the option of shutting off comments from everyone.

You can close comments on articles, but not on seeds. With seeds, you've got two options: delete seed or don't delete seed - that's it.

:::keeping fingers crossed that the next update will fix this sorry situation:::

Ah ha! Well that sucks, Crow. Let's hope a lot of things are made better in the new vine.

My confidence in Newsvine moderator's willingness or ability to uphold the CoH has dropped dramatically in the last few months.

I haven't noticed a difference.

That's why I believe each author should have the ability to delete when they see fit.

Authors do have the ability to delete a comment. What we're talking about here, is the ability to block a user from commenting on a column.

What I am proposing, is a user be automatically blocked from a thread if they have more than 4 or 5 comments deleted on that thread. That way if the author deliberately deletes valid comments of a particular user, just to block them from the thread, it will be picked up by the admin, and the author could be suspended for abusing their "Delete" power.

My confidence in Newsvine moderator's willingness or ability to uphold the CoH has dropped dramatically in the last few months.

I haven't noticed a difference.

That's why I believe each author should have the ability to delete when they see fit.

Authors do have the ability to delete a comment. What we're talking about here, is the ability to block a user from commenting on a column.

What I am proposing, is a user be automatically blocked from a thread if they have more than 4 or 5 comments deleted on that thread. That way if the author deliberately deletes valid comments of a particular user, just to block them from the thread, it will be picked up by the admin, and the author could be suspended for abusing their "Delete" power.

Jerry,

well if I see a person deleting my comments for bs reasons, I will usually just ask that they delete ALL of my comments from the thread, because if they are going to squelch my opinion from it, they need to just remove me from the column entirely.

well if I see a person deleting my comments for bs reasons, I will usually just ask that they delete ALL of my comments from the thread, because if they are going to squelch my opinion from it, they need to just remove me from the column entirely.

In a way I agree with you. But IMO, it's best just to respond to the email you get from admin notifying you of the deletion, and state your case as to why the comment should be restored.

Continued unwarranted deletions will result in a suspension of the author. However, if the admin is not made aware of the deletion abuse, the abuse will just continue.

and that has never worked, not even a response as to why it wasn't deleted. I think the moderators are just overworked.

The other problem could also be that in the case of these authors, most of the posts on their columns are pro their position, so they delete what they don't like, even if it doesn't violate the CoH, and because nobody else is getting deleted (because nobody reads their columns), then they wouldn't get enough complaints to get suspended.

and that has never worked, not even a response as to why it wasn't deleted. I think the moderators are just overworked.

It has worked, I have seen many comments restored, including some of mine.

I think you meant "....not even a response as to why the comment wasn't restored." And I have received a response explaining why a comment was not restored, but not always, ..... your right, the moderators are overworked.

IMO, if they they have the time and the resources to create a "New Newsvine", they should be able to hire more moderators in the meantime.

That could just be your 'name value', as you write/seed a lot more than I do. I have never received a single peep from appealing.

That could just be your 'name value', as you write/seed a lot more than I do.

I would not like to think that.

Actually, I have not had a comment deleted for quite a while. I think it may be more that the moderators are more overworked now than back when I had my "Snark Meter" set too high.

I have never received a single peep from appealing.

My assumption would be that the comments did not warrant restoring, and overworked moderators do not have to time to explain actions that should not require explaining.

Jerry,

Actually 3 of them were flat out not deletable, the others were debatable, (gotta stop biting at the grenade trolls, but they were still within the CoH), so I just stopped bothering.

Speaking of troll, I have one in another thread now. :(

He hit the road (Jack).

Hi Katheryn Brady, welcome to newsvine. As you quickly learned, comments can be quite diverse. But, stick around, there's plenty to learn.

Katheryn Brandy, #10;

NewsVine is an interesting place and you will find your place that complies to your interests. Not all are locked in their opinions and stupidly ill informed. Take them with a grain of salt and find your own information. Don't sort out just one venue of thinkers until it shows truths you can rely on and verify by your own investigations from more reliable and authenticated sources.

I cannot tell you how to think or wish to, that is up to you. Good fortune.

Susan and Anthony - Why thank you for the welcome, and I enjoyed your example in #11 - #11.3 of civilized discourse. ;~))

Welcome, Katheryn! Trolls aside, Newsvine is a great place with great people, even if we don't always agree on everything. ;}

For some reason, you're still in the Greenhouse. If you've got the time, visit lauhal's article: Are you a REAL PERSON in the Greenhouse? Ask her to help spring you. Plus you'll find some good general information on using Newsvine.

(Sorry for the off-topic post - I just like helping out our new 'Viners!)

Anthony, hello. I found your post difficult to understand. Not sure if it was the misspellings or unclear sentences. Also, not sure if you were insulting newsvine posters or actually offering advice.

If you refuse to face reality and do anything other than talk amongst your selves, you can never find actual facts as recorded in documentation by reliable sources. Not fox, not second hand pundits, not agendas by the left/socialism sources, but actual words and actions by those you believe in.

No offense, but who are you to tell me and others we need to face reality. I face reality every day, every hour when I face unemployment, rising bank fees, rising health insurance costs, lack of access to quality medical care, rising transportation costs, rising education costs, neocon politicians who deny women birth control and medically needed procedures, increasing housing foreclosures, endless wars, the list goes on. Have you faced any of these realities personally?

I face a reality created by the greed of the banking industry in cahoots with neocon politicians and dimwitted Dems. I watched the takeover of our Democracy by GWBush's trillion dollar bank giveway.

What cute phrases -- left/socialism, revised history, socialist ideology, half truths. How empty your words are. Not one policy devised by neocons has helped America but boy they have helped the Uber rich. The 1% have done quite well.

However, more people are becoming aware and will make sure it will become knowledge to conteract the socialist ideology, half truths and revised history you proclaim.

You talk like a neocon, taking the criticisms of neocon policies and trying to project it onto your "perceived" enemy.

You are demonizing your fellow Americans and that is what is so sad.

Susan Anthony, #11.1;

I can discuss each point you refer to, but let me ask? Do you realy want to know?

Are you open for a difference of opinion and documented facts or just looking for arguements.

Anthony, I am open to differences of opinion, information and communication.

I do not look for arguments. But, I will defend myself and my values. Occasionally, I will get testy or snippy if I think a post is frivolous, or if I am in bad mood. If that bothers you, I am sorry.

Communication is a two-way process and it is often a difficult process.

Anthony, if you can bear with me, I will have to research much of the people and issues you have mentioned. While many of the persons and issues you discuss are familiar, I can not speak about them with any depth of knowledge.

I appreciate that you rely on your own judgement rather than "mainstream" media. I, too, gave up my TV in 1991 and while I do not have a TV, I am often in the home of family, friends and even restaurants where there are TVs, so I am not unaware of many of today's opinion shows and their hosts.

I do rely on the internet for information, so that is another location where I find reruns of opinion shows as well as internet radio. But, I research and continue to expand my informational sources, so that I do not buy into any one presentation of facts.

I am widely read but I lost my beautiful library of thousands of books when I had to sell my home in 2006, so all my sources for references are gone. I could have gone to my bookshelf and gotten the Karl Marx book or the Red book by Mao, or the Prince, or the bible or so many other influential books.

Now, I must find another way to rebuild my sources for references.

Take care.

Susan, please don't get me started on China!!!!

I'll get brain strain on that topic alone.... 8>}

Now this McS is what I call derailment, unless you are of the mindset everything is about politics.

McSpocky, #11.7;

I'll agree with you with one caveat. Are you using "trolls" in general or assigning them to a specific catalog of the political spectrum?

I've read many NewsViners comments and the most used it in left wing derailings and Occupy NV group takeovers. Such as happened to me several times when posting opinion pieces and became a target. I wrote a reasoned letter to the NV monitors about the groups censorship by flooding my articles as soon as they posted and started within miniutes in the first response. They have since avoided my comments.

I have since used a more discriptive term for them; Drones. I'm mostly Norwegian and we have trolls that can be funny and mischievous.

Viewer01, Isn't the term mostly used in political comments? I've never seen it when seeing a recipe or a vacation trip article.

Viewer01, Isn't the term mostly used in political comments? I've never seen it when seeing a recipe or a vacation trip article.

??????? Trying to get.........term? You mean my web name? Oh derailment!! ?? Wait no...recipe or vacation??? Sorry Anthony I'm not following you.

Derailment - Is posting a comment that has nothing to do with the original posted article or seed.

Viewer01 - I could like sight seeing as in vacation trip article, more like a newspaper title. Journal/Sentinel/Sun/Beacon etc. or as Eddie would say whats your opinion VIEWER.

Viewer01, #11.10;

Sorry I wasn't as explicit as I could have been.
The subject and topic was Trolls and I should have included that.

.... unless you are of the mindset everything is about politics.

This is what I responded to, because that "term" (trolls) is the only times, in political articles, it is used that I've seen. It is used as a derogitory "term" for people who have nothing else to say, to refute/defame a writer and not the message. Using it to refer to creatures who hide under beds to frighten chilldren.

See rule #5 of Saul Alinskys' "Rules for Radicals" and you will see why it is so used ad nauseam.

And yes, I believe "Trolls" is political in its current usage.

Oh, I think trolls can be used for any kind of cyber bullying, example if you were to have video's of some family event to share with friends and some outsider comes along pokes fun. It can be anything on any site for people with personality disorders to express their alienation. The thing about the Vine is people with different views on a subject debates can get nasty, like Thanksgiving dinner with relatives. Not being a troll in my opinion, but well not every ones.

As for mindset of politics in everything, I was talking about you & Sue, what you started is called derailment or changing the subject to something completely unrelated to the original post. And I have been guilty or so I have been told of that in the past. You can see how if you have an axe to grind political or otherwise, start your own post, or [this may be advertising] go on the Ed Schultz poll question of the day. Warning the majority of us there are liberal democrats, Sue will be welcomed, you too but in a special kind of way. ☺☻☺☻

One other thing post #11.10 sight seeing, site seeing.

Viewer01, #11.12;

I understand what you are saying and mainly agree. But by your own definition your comment in #11.12 was not on topic. I do not concider it a derailment but a response to another viner of your opinion of what was said..I feel a short side discussion can be how you learn other things as we did in a few comments. You can learn WHY someone has a reason for an opinion on or pertaining to the topic.

It can be anything on any site for people with personality disorders to express their alienation.

Yes it can, but I said that I've only seen it most used on political pages. I've also seen it used on Police bashing, Religious comments, pieces on racism, and mostly by liberals, proggresive, or unionists.

Once, and only one time, I was suspended by Sally for a day for infering a writer may have a personality disorder and called him loutish. He didn't know the word and reported it as obscene. My comment was reinstated but the suspension stayed.

I could not call him a Troll because he went far beyond that in his tirades. And since then he has completely avoided my articles and any comments I've made on others, as well as his gang of "Occupy NV" because I'm no longer on their WATCH list.

I can only Assume it was my suggestion to the monitors that if? it was fair for them to do it that it may only be just as fair if my conservative friends cross over to their articles and reciprocate, but without the vilifications.

This would be censorship by domination, one of Hitlers' brown shirts tactics, and I avidly support free speech whether from the far left or far right, but free speech doesn't include rude personal attacks.

McSpocky, sorry for going off topic. Thanks for the reminder.

Anthony 1802249, I published an article "Trolls and My Reply to Anthony1802249" as my reply.

Thanks everyone for your patience.

McSpocky, #11.15;

I apologize and you are right. As an elder I do wander and run off sometimes on tracks that may not belong. I should not have let myself carry over an encounter with a troll to this thread and dumped the emotional backlash on all these good people.

McSpocky Almost like a hair trigger..

Shave your head Mc I tried it once and it worked for me except for the bald thingy ;-)

Soph act in such an assholish way!

You can't help stupid, or those that find that sort of thing the highlight of their day

Pack yer chest waders. It gets deep and icky.